Journal Issue 4.2

An Interview with Sharon La Cruise

Interview by Anne Keefe

AK: I'm sure you've heard that politicians are now saying that education is the civil rights issue of the 21st century. So I'm wondering what you would say about how Daisy's story speaks to that issue toda--her fight for education and the experience of the Little Rock Nin--just how it seems cyclical and unresolved.

SLC: It's a fascinating thing because I spent so much time in the past with the story, to watch what has happened over the years beyond. Because ever since the 1954 decision and because of the Little Rock Nine they had to go back and clarify the decision because it was so vague. There's been this ongoing fight to just totally tear down that law and today the schools have re-segregated themselves, worse than when they were fighting in the 50s. And it's kind of mind-boggling that this would happen. But the minute Brown took place, a lot of the whites, particularly in Little Rock, they immediately pulled their kids out of the public school system and began creating these private academies that their kids would go to so they would not have to interact with black kids. And a lot of those academies still exist today. And when you look at the map, across the country there's case after case after case where there's this fight all the way to the Supreme Court because of Brown. People are still fighting the same battles where they don't want their kids to go to the same school as kids of color. I mean, it's a tragedy really. And there's a part of me that feels like, I don't know if you could ever make this work, that you could never force people to fully accept you if they don't want to. And there's a part of me that's thinking, I know Daisy would be very sad. The Little Rock Nine, they fought so hard, and in some parts of the world, like if you go to Little Rock, like if you go to Central High, it's extremely integrated. The population is like 60% black, 40% white and other races. And that's very integrated compared to the rest of our schools. The problem is that some people say that within the walls of Central High School, they're still segregated. I don't totally blame Central High School, I really love the principal, I really do, we actually went to the same college, Adelphi, she's from Arkansas, I love her to death. I really don't think it's her fault, it's a bigger issue, because what's happening in Arkansas is what's happening everywhere. These poor black kids, they're going to these schools that are inadequate, that when they get to high school, they're not compatible with the while students. The white students have more resources, they have more tutoring, they're in accelerated, college-bound classes and the black kids are in remedial classes. So in some cases in Central, which is like five stories tall, they don't even meet some classes.

AK: Sounds like my high school in Durham, North Carolina.

SLC: It's everywhere.

AK: There's a color line in the tracking system.

SLC: And I don't blame them for tracking. I was tracked in high school. I don't blame you for tracking really bright kids into college. The sad thing is, how do you elevate the kids who didn't get the same education up to that level? It's almost impossible in some cases, because of where they're coming from, the gap is so huge. When I went to high school in the 70s, I didn't even know we were segregated. I grew up in Brooklyn in a very Latin and black neighborhood, and everyone in school were kids from my neighborhood. So I never questioned it. The only whites I interacted with were my teachers, which was not unusual to me. So I went from eighth grade all the way through high school without really interacting with any white students. In high school we had like two white students. There's no integration there, on the service end of the community. We didn't think there was anything wrong with it because we all knew each other and were very comfortable together. And in my high school we were tracked. And I was college-bound, and the rest of the student body was not. And it's only now I look back and realize, even in the context of that, because it's not race, it was really ability, there's still something so inherently wrong about it. Because now it's like you basically said, "there's no hope for these kids. They're not going to college." They know it and they're not hiding it. They're special, and you're not. And they did special things for us, like we'd go to special plays on Broadway and stuff, every play you could think of in the 70s like Grease, we'd go see all of them for free. So they treated us like we were special, all our teachers knew us, our classes were smaller. We had all this support, but those other kids, they're like, "They won't even make it through high school." It's that kind of sadness, I look back. How do you change that? That fight that they're fighting for it's a heroic one, but it's really hard to figure out, unless you basically say no matter where you live, everybody has the same. And if you live in a neighborhood that's wealthy, some of your taxes have to go to the areas that aren't doing as well. It's like the NFL. The NFL system works really well because they have teams that are really strong, and they put the money in a pool for the teams that aren't doing as well. They help them to keep going instead of just letting them sink. And nobody ever complains about it. It's a form of socialism. We need the NFL model, we need socialism, because we can't keep going on like this where the place you live will determine the kind of person you turn out to be and determine the kind of education you'll have access to. It's inherently not fair. Because you're born into a certain community, now you're trapped to be basically a failure in some cases. It doesn't seem fair. And in the end you're all in it together, especially in a place like New York, where communities are so close together, one block from the next, you can't keep pretending that what happens over there doesn't impact what happens over here. Because if you have an entire population that has no hopes, no dreams, they're eventually going to come to your side. They have to get out somehow, they have to survive some way. You already told them that they're nothing, there's no future for them. What do you think, that they'll just stay on their side and they'll never be impacted? It's just not realistic. We're all in it together. I know for Daisy toward the end she made a lot of comments in interviews where she felt that they fought really hard to open the doors for equality but they never really counted on how hard it would be for people to walk through those doors. They never expected that. They though it would be a natural thing for people to be running in through those doors, and they found out that it's not that simple, it's a much more complicated thing.

AK: How do you hope your film is used in the classroom?

SLC: I want to use it in a lot of different ways. There's a part of me that wants it to be for kids who have given up, and kids who are dropping out. I mean, the stats are staggering. Like 17,000 students drop out of school, I think, a day, maybe a week. I don't think it's a year. It's pretty big, the stats. It's 17,000 kids dropping out. And I wish those kids could watch the film and see the journey that Daisy Bates took. Because Daisy Bates is someone who could have went the other way, because of her childhood. But I feel like she's somebody who refused to be defined by her childhood. And she decided that she was going to choose her own path. She was going to do whatever it took to get where she wanted to go. I feel that she's an inspirational person for young people. And the Little Rock Nine, they're just teenagers. They're like 14 and 15 years old, having soldiers march them into school, they're getting abused. I mean, unlike the whole notion of bullying today, it was at a different level for them. You had entire communities, in some cases, that were entirely complicit in you being beat up every day. It's unbelievable. You have kids going home to their parents to find out that they kicked your butt all day long. You'd like to think nowadays you could talk to the parents and they would put a stop to it. In this case, you have a part of the community that was complicit, and thought it was a good idea to beat up these kids because they had no right to be at their school. So I feel that they as well were inspirational. They fought so hard to get into the school, because they realized that the school had the resources that they didn't have in their black schools. And it's sad to me today that students who have the opportunity to go into schools freely are going the other way. They're like running through the doors. And there's such a disconnect between our history and these kids. I keep feeling that if we could reconnect them to that history, maybe they'd have a better appreciation and understanding for the present that they obviously can relate to. So I would love for it to be used in that way, to reach out to kids who are already at risk of dropping out, and to have that conversation with them about being able to choose your life, and choose your path. And this whole notion of no matter what the circumstances are in your life, within your home life, that you still have choices that you can make about who you're going to become, that you don't have to just become a perpetual victim, and to fall into this trap.